Deposition before the House Select Committee on Assassinations.
UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS
United States Federal Building
U.S. Magistrate Courtroom 16-F23
1100 Commerce Street
Dallas, Texas
Monday, May 22, 1978, 9:50 a.m.
APPEARANCES:
JOHN HORNBECK, Senior Staff Counsel
Select Committee on Assassinations
U. S. House of Representatives
Washington, D. C.20515
DONALD PURDY, Staff Counsel
Select Committee on Assassinations
U. S. House of Representatives
Washington, D. C.20515
SWORN TESTIMONY OF
JOSEPH CAMPISI
P R O C E E D I N G S
Whereupon,
JOSEPH CAMPISI was duly sworn and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION BY MR. HORNBECK:
Q. Would you state your name for the record, spelling your last name, please?
A. Joseph Campisi, C-a-m-p-i-s-i-
Q. What is your present home address, Mr- Campisi?
A. 4445 Ashford Drive, Dallas, Texas.
Q. And your present occupation is what, sir?
A. The restaurant business.
Q. What is the name of your restaurant?
A. The Egyptian Restaurant, Inc.
Q. And how long have you been associated with that particular business?
A. At that location, 28 years.
Q. Mr. Campisi, before we begin questioning in today's deposition, let me put on the record that, one, you have been sworn here today, and the deposition that we are taking is one that requires the swearing of the witness and is taken under oath. Do you understand that, sir?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In addition to that, the court reporter is transcribing what we say today, and this transcription will then be certified by the court reporter as an accurate representation of the discussions had today. Do you also understand that?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Prior to today, have you received a copy of the Committee Rules for the Select Committee on Assassinations, including the resolution of the House of Representatives establishing that committee?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you have any questions whatsoever with regard to the rules of the committee or with regard to the proceedings here today?
A. Well, as far as rules I don't understand it, you know.
All I'm here to do is answer the questions you ask me.
Q. Is your appearance here today to take this deposition free and voluntary on your part?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have been informed that if you desired to have counsel you could have one present?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And I take it at this time your election is to proceed voluntarily without the assistance of counsel; is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you have any questions whatsoever with regard to the proceedings today, our function, the scope of the inquiry, any questions that pertain to any of those subjects prior to our beginning?
A. Now, I don't understand that.You're asking me about, you know, what questions you are going to ask me or I don't --
Q. Do you have any questions about the proceedings today, that is, the taking of your statement under oath, what your rights and obligations are as a witness? Do you have any questions about those matters?
A. I don't even know how to answer it.
Q. Well, let me just explain some of the rules that pertain to the taking of a deposition.
First of all, the deposition is voluntarily given, as we have explained.
A. Yes.
Q. Secondly, you could have counsel present to assist you during the questioning.
A. Yes.
Q. Third, you have the right to refuse to answer any question on the grounds of self-incrimination. Do you understand that?
A. Yes.
Q. And, fourth, that all questions and answers that are given today are taken under oath which means they must be truthful to the best of your memory so that there would not be the criminal problem of perjury for any statement that is given willfully and untruthfully. Do you understand that?
A. Yes, I understand that.
Q. With those rights being explained to you, are there any other questions that you --
A. You asked me if I didn't want to answer a question, right, then I could refuse to answer that question?
Q. That's correct, sir.
A. Well, I don't know what questions you are going to ask me.
Q. The questions will relate to --
A. Excuse me.
Q. Sure.
A. Is everything going to be about my association with Jack Ruby? Are they going to be asked about people that I know, names and stuff like this here? Are you going to ask me about, well, do I know John Brown, and I know John Brown, do I have to answer that I know John Brown?
Q. Sir, you do not have to answer any question that you do not want to answer. We would hope that we would be able to have a cooperative session, as you have indicated before, and if you understand your rights
in that regard then we can proceed on a question to question basis and if we have an area in which there has to be some further discussion, then we can adjourn the proceedings and attempt to reach whatever accord that we can.
A. Okay.
Q. Let me begin by discussing the area of your association and knowledge with Jack Ruby. And first of all, Mr. Campisi, when did you first meet Jack Ruby?
A. In 1947.
Q. Did you meet him here in Dallas?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Could I ask you under what circumstances you have met Mr. Ruby?
A.I had a little bar at Main and St. Paul, and one day a fellow by the name of Milton Joseph brought Jack Ruby to my place of business and introduced me to Jack Ruby.
Q.Mr. Joseph's business or occupation was what at that time?
A.He was a jewelry salesman.
Q.And you had known him for some period of time?
A.Yes.
Q.Was he from Dallas or from Chicago?
A.Originally from Chicago.
Q.Was it explained to you during the first meeting how Mr. Joseph came to introduce you to Mr. Ruby and how he knew Mr. Ruby?
A.He said they were friends in Chicago.
Q.Did he indicate that they had grown up together?
A.Real good friends.I don't remember them
saying grown up together, but they knew one another real well.
Q.All right.Could you tell us what was discussed during
this first meeting with Mr. Ruby?
A.He just introduced me to him at that time.I don't know whether -- he had opened the Silver Spur, a hillbilly-type joint on Ervay street, and that was all of it right there.
Q. Did Jack Ruby indicate to you why he had left Chicago and moved to Dallas?
A. No.
Q. Did he ever discuss with you his life in Chicago.
A. No.
Q. Did he ever discuss with you the fact that he had been in a union in Chicago prior to coming to Dallas?
A. No.
Q. Jack Ruby had a sister in Dallas by the name of Eva Grant?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you know Mrs. Grant?
A. I had met her after they had the place, the Las Vegas Club, and probably seen her two or three times in all of the times after I met her.
Q. I take it you met Jack Ruby before you met Eva Grant; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. When you first met Jack Ruby did he discuss with you the fact that he was also interested in going into a club business?
A. Well, he was already in the club business when I met him, the Silver Spur.
Q. Did he ask you for any advice?
A. No.
Q. Or any assistance?
A. No.
Q. What kind of acts, entertainment, did Jack Ruby have during the first club, the Silver Spur?
A. It was a hillbilly place.I might have been in it one time.I think I was there one time.I don't remember.One time.
Q. You say hillbilly.Did they have bands, live entertainment?
A. I think so.Hillbilly in type.It was a rough part of town.
Q. Apparently Mr. Ruby was also involved in a club, Bob Wills Ranch House with a fellow by the name of Hyman Fader.
A. Does that particular club or the name of Hyman Fader sound familiar to you?
A. I think that -- I don't know. I knew that Hy Fader had the Longhorn Club where he booked big named bands in there.
Now whether Jack Ruby was part of it, I don't recall.
Q. You never had any discussions with Mr. Fader or Mr. Ruby regarding their business partnership?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever hear from any source that Jack Ruby had taken some money from Mr. Fader in some business practice?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Do you remember hearing any discussion of any kind of animosity between those two individuals?
A. They might have had some misunderstanding through business dealings. I really don't know.You know, it's been so long back, you know.
Q. Is there something that strikes your memory from that question that there may have been some ill-feeling between the two men?
A. There might have been some little jealousy afterwards, yes.
Q. You indicated that you first met Jack Ruby in 1947 when he moved from Chicago. Did he ever discuss with you people that he knew in Chicago, drop names with you of people that he knew in Chicago, anything like that?
A. No, not that I recall.He might have done it but I don't recall it.
Q. I guess the question gets to the kind of individual that Mr. Ruby was in some areas, and there have been allegations that Jack Ruby would discuss his Chicago days with people at his club and he would discuss famous names of people that he knew in Chicago with patrons and friends. I was wondering if that had occurred with you.
A. I don't remember.I really don't.
Q. From the period of 1947, continuing on through the end of 1963, did you continue to know Jack Ruby and to speak with Jack Ruby?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you tell us the nature of the contacts that you had with him?
A. I would -- After he had opened the Las Vegas Club, I had been over maybe two or three times, and on Friday nights he had amateur hours, and I worked on Friday nights and I always told Jack I couldn't come over. He said, you know, it was a late show, and so one night we went over, my wife and sisters and sister-in-law. They all used to go over there and have a good time because he was funny, and I enjoyed him because he was a little dizzy.
Q. When you say he was funny, did he act as the Master of Ceremonies in his club?
A. Yes.
Q. And put on some kind of an act that way?
A. Yes.If someone got out of line he would go over there and take care of it himself.
Q. There have been some statements that Jack Ruby was quick to stem any kind of trouble in his club.
A. Right.
Q. Did you personally witness some of those kinds of incidents?
A. Two of them.
Q. Could you describe them for us?
A. The night we went over to see the amateur hour, we come in the front door and we sat right at the front table, and there was a boy by the name of Frankie Totorella and a boy by the name of
THE REPORTER: Frankie who, sir? Could you
spell the last name?
THE WITNESS: Totorella.
THE REPORTER: Do you know how to spell that?
THE WITNESS: No.
MR. HORNBECK: T-o-t-o-r-e-l-l-a.
BY MR. HORNBECK:
Q. Is that correct?
A. Yeah.And a boy by the name of J. C. Adams who is deceased no
UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS
United States Federal Building
U.S. Magistrate Courtroom 16-F23
1100 Commerce Street
Dallas, Texas
Monday, May 22, 1978, 9:50 a.m.
APPEARANCES:
JOHN HORNBECK, Senior Staff Counsel
Select Committee on Assassinations
U. S. House of Representatives
Washington, D. C.20515
DONALD PURDY, Staff Counsel
Select Committee on Assassinations
U. S. House of Representatives
Washington, D. C.20515
SWORN TESTIMONY OF
JOSEPH CAMPISI
P R O C E E D I N G S
Whereupon,
JOSEPH CAMPISI was duly sworn and testified as follows:
EXAMINATION BY MR. HORNBECK:
Q. Would you state your name for the record, spelling your last name, please?
A. Joseph Campisi, C-a-m-p-i-s-i-
Q. What is your present home address, Mr- Campisi?
A. 4445 Ashford Drive, Dallas, Texas.
Q. And your present occupation is what, sir?
A. The restaurant business.
Q. What is the name of your restaurant?
A. The Egyptian Restaurant, Inc.
Q. And how long have you been associated with that particular business?
A. At that location, 28 years.
Q. Mr. Campisi, before we begin questioning in today's deposition, let me put on the record that, one, you have been sworn here today, and the deposition that we are taking is one that requires the swearing of the witness and is taken under oath. Do you understand that, sir?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. In addition to that, the court reporter is transcribing what we say today, and this transcription will then be certified by the court reporter as an accurate representation of the discussions had today. Do you also understand that?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Prior to today, have you received a copy of the Committee Rules for the Select Committee on Assassinations, including the resolution of the House of Representatives establishing that committee?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you have any questions whatsoever with regard to the rules of the committee or with regard to the proceedings here today?
A. Well, as far as rules I don't understand it, you know.
All I'm here to do is answer the questions you ask me.
Q. Is your appearance here today to take this deposition free and voluntary on your part?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. You have been informed that if you desired to have counsel you could have one present?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. And I take it at this time your election is to proceed voluntarily without the assistance of counsel; is that correct?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Do you have any questions whatsoever with regard to the proceedings today, our function, the scope of the inquiry, any questions that pertain to any of those subjects prior to our beginning?
A. Now, I don't understand that.You're asking me about, you know, what questions you are going to ask me or
Q. Do you have any questions about the proceedings today, that is, the taking of your statement under oath, what your rights and obligations are as a witness? Do you have any questions about those matters?
A. I don't even know how to answer it.
Q. Well, let me just explain some of the rules that pertain to the taking of a deposition.
First of all, the deposition is voluntarily given, as we have explained.
A. Yes.
Q. Secondly, you could have counsel present to assist you during the questioning.
A. Yes.
Q. Third, you have the right to refuse to answer any question on the grounds of self-incrimination. Do you understand that?
A. Yes.
Q. And, fourth, that all questions and answers that are given today are taken under oath which means they must be truthful to the best of your memory so that there would not be the criminal problem of perjury for any statement that is given willfully and untruthfully. Do you understand that?
A. Yes, I understand that.
Q. With those rights being explained to you, are there any other questions that you --
A. You asked me if I didn't want to answer a question, right, then I could refuse to answer that question?
Q. That's correct, sir.
A. Well, I don't know what questions you are going to ask me.
Q. The questions will relate to --
A. Excuse me.
Q. Sure.
A. Is everything going to be about my association with Jack Ruby? Are they going to be asked about people that I know, names and stuff like this here? Are you going to ask me about, well, do I know John Brown, and I know John Brown, do I have to answer that I know John Brown?
Q. Sir, you do not have to answer any question that you do not want to answer. We would hope that we would be able to have a cooperative session, as you have indicated before, and if you understand your rights
in that regard then we can proceed on a question to question basis and if we have an area in which there has to be some further discussion, then we can adjourn the proceedings and attempt to reach whatever accord that we can.
A. Okay.
Q. Let me begin by discussing the area of your association and knowledge with Jack Ruby. And first of all, Mr. Campisi, when did you first meet Jack Ruby?
A. In 1947.
Q. Did you meet him here in Dallas?
A. Yes, sir.
Q. Could I ask you under what circumstances you have met Mr. Ruby?
A.I had a little bar at Main and St. Paul, and one day a fellow by the name of Milton Joseph brought Jack Ruby to my place of business and introduced me to Jack Ruby.
Q.Mr. Joseph's business or occupation was what at that time?
A.He was a jewelry salesman.
Q.And you had known him for some period of time?
A.Yes.
Q.Was he from Dallas or from Chicago?
A.Originally from Chicago.
Q.Was it explained to you during the first meeting how Mr. Joseph came to introduce you to Mr. Ruby and how he knew Mr. Ruby?
A.He said they were friends in Chicago.
Q.Did he indicate that they had grown up together?
A.Real good friends.I don't remember them
saying grown up together, but they knew one another real well.
Q.All right.Could you tell us what was discussed during
this first meeting with Mr. Ruby?
A.He just introduced me to him at that time.I don't know whether -- he had opened the Silver Spur, a hillbilly-type joint on Ervay street, and that was all of it right there.
Q. Did Jack Ruby indicate to you why he had left Chicago and moved to Dallas?
A. No.
Q. Did he ever discuss with you his life in Chicago.
A. No.
Q. Did he ever discuss with you the fact that he had been in a union in Chicago prior to coming to Dallas?
A. No.
Q. Jack Ruby had a sister in Dallas by the name of Eva Grant?
A. Yes.
Q. Did you know Mrs. Grant?
A. I had met her after they had the place, the Las Vegas Club, and probably seen her two or three times in all of the times after I met her.
Q. I take it you met Jack Ruby before you met Eva Grant; is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. When you first met Jack Ruby did he discuss with you the fact that he was also interested in going into a club business?
A. Well, he was already in the club business when I met him, the Silver Spur.
Q. Did he ask you for any advice?
A. No.
Q. Or any assistance?
A. No.
Q. What kind of acts, entertainment, did Jack Ruby have during the first club, the Silver Spur?
A. It was a hillbilly place.I might have been in it one time.I think I was there one time.I don't remember.One time.
Q. You say hillbilly.Did they have bands, live entertainment?
A. I think so.Hillbilly in type.It was a rough part of town.
Q. Apparently Mr. Ruby was also involved in a club, Bob Wills Ranch House with a fellow by the name of Hyman Fader.
A. Does that particular club or the name of Hyman Fader sound familiar to you?
A. I think that -- I don't know. I knew that Hy Fader had the Longhorn Club where he booked big named bands in there.
Now whether Jack Ruby was part of it, I don't recall.
Q. You never had any discussions with Mr. Fader or Mr. Ruby regarding their business partnership?
A. No.
Q. Did you ever hear from any source that Jack Ruby had taken some money from Mr. Fader in some business practice?
A. I don't recall.
Q. Do you remember hearing any discussion of any kind of animosity between those two individuals?
A. They might have had some misunderstanding through business dealings. I really don't know.You know, it's been so long back, you know.
Q. Is there something that strikes your memory from that question that there may have been some ill-feeling between the two men?
A. There might have been some little jealousy afterwards, yes.
Q. You indicated that you first met Jack Ruby in 1947 when he moved from Chicago. Did he ever discuss with you people that he knew in Chicago, drop names with you of people that he knew in Chicago, anything like that?
A. No, not that I recall.He might have done it but I don't recall it.
Q. I guess the question gets to the kind of individual that Mr. Ruby was in some areas, and there have been allegations that Jack Ruby would discuss his Chicago days with people at his club and he would discuss famous names of people that he knew in Chicago with patrons and friends. I was wondering if that had occurred with you.
A. I don't remember.I really don't.
Q. From the period of 1947, continuing on through the end of 1963, did you continue to know Jack Ruby and to speak with Jack Ruby?
A. Yes.
Q. Could you tell us the nature of the contacts that you had with him?
A. I would -- After he had opened the Las Vegas Club, I had been over maybe two or three times, and on Friday nights he had amateur hours, and I worked on Friday nights and I always told Jack I couldn't come over. He said, you know, it was a late show, and so one night we went over, my wife and sisters and sister-in-law. They all used to go over there and have a good time because he was funny, and I enjoyed him because he was a little dizzy.
Q. When you say he was funny, did he act as the Master of Ceremonies in his club?
A. Yes.
Q. And put on some kind of an act that way?
A. Yes.If someone got out of line he would go over there and take care of it himself.
Q. There have been some statements that Jack Ruby was quick to stem any kind of trouble in his club.
A. Right.
Q. Did you personally witness some of those kinds of incidents?
A. Two of them.
Q. Could you describe them for us?
A. The night we went over to see the amateur hour, we come in the front door and we sat right at the front table, and there was a boy by the name of Frankie Totorella and a boy by the name of
THE REPORTER: Frankie who, sir? Could you
spell the last name?
THE WITNESS: Totorella.
THE REPORTER: Do you know how to spell that?
THE WITNESS: No.
MR. HORNBECK: T-o-t-o-r-e-l-l-a.
BY MR. HORNBECK:
Q. Is that correct?
A. Yeah.And a boy by the name of J. C. Adams who is deceased no
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